POLL SHOWS CLOSE GOVERNOR’S RACE – DANIELS’ CAMP PLAIN PUZZLED

I am not sure Mitch Daniels and his camp quite get how his campaign has spent millions – I say millions – of dollars, put his face on TV in a kitschy “Mitch TV” program, and his face in commercials ad nauseum and still see polls that show a close race.

What Mitch doesn’t get is that Hoosiers tend to remember past actions. Although the toll-road lease and the time change issues are well in the background, what still lingers in Hoosier minds – at least those impacted – is Daniels lack of consideration of what Hoosiers wanted.

At the time of the decisions, Daniels’ party controlled both chambers of the General Assembly; his wishes were their commands. They followed like sheep and gave him what he wanted, and some of them paid a price later by losing their bids for re-election.

Add the continuing down slide of the Hoosier economy to his apparent disdain for listening to the people, and you have a bunch of unhappy Hoosiers. Perhaps Daniels’ lack of understanding comes from his over-exaggerated sense of self and just how much he has “done” for Indiana.

Photo Credit: Nate Smith – Washington Times-Herald

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About Charlotte A. Weybright

I own a home in the historical West Central Neighborhood of Fort Wayne, Indiana. I have four grown sons and nine grandchildren - four grandsons and five granddaughters. I love to work on my home, and I enjoy crafts of all types. But, most of all, I enjoy being involved in political and community issues.
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48 Responses to POLL SHOWS CLOSE GOVERNOR’S RACE – DANIELS’ CAMP PLAIN PUZZLED

  1. Mike says:

    So, it looks like the choice that we have is either Daniels or Thompson. I’m definetly not happly with Daniels’ lack of concern about our health and well being. On the other hand (since Thompson has a farm background) I don’t think that she’ll be any better when it comes to CAFOs.
    It sounds to me like we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel.

  2. Mike:

    Long Thompson’s background is a traditional farming background. CAFOs are not traditional farming and involve harmful practices not only to the animals but also to humans.

    I am hoping that Long Thompson does not support CAFOs, but, to be honest, I haven’t asked what her position is.

    I think right now everyone is so caught up in the economic woes of the country and the world that we are forgetting there are other issues out there.

  3. clint jenkins says:

    Hey Charlotte, when was the last time you were on Longs Farm. I have been on Doug and Rogers farms I the past 12 or so months and I think you may want to take a drive to Larwill and check things out. I think in fact you need to actually go on a farm sometime. If you think Jill Long is going to be against Cafos you have another thing coming. Cafos are the family farm these days. As I said, why dont you pick the family and I will take you to the farm. Maybe you could learn something.

  4. sarah smith says:

    I’m a little xonxerned but not surprised that you would support a candidate and not truely know where they stand on issues. Or for that fact what their moral charachter truely is…but I guess this is exactly what the majority of dems do. How else do we explain them supporting someone with ties to communist. Too bad for our country and the generations to come.

  5. sarah smith says:

    I’m a little concerned but not surprised that you would support a candidate and not truely know where they stand on issues. Or for that fact what thier moral charachter truely is…but I guess this is exactly what the majority of dems do. How else do we explain them supporting someone with ties to communist. Too bad for our country and the generations to come.

  6. Sarah:

    Do you want to be coherent here for just a moment. Are you saying Jill Long Thompson is connected to communists and has no moral character? Careful, you are treading on thin ice.

    After all, this post was about JLT, so I am assuming you are now assassinating her character – something desperate Republicans usually do.

    Republicans do the fear factor thing throwing out communist, socialist, etc. That may work on some, but the words don’t scare me. Go ahead and sling all you want.

  7. Clint:

    CAFOs are not traditional farming – you know it and I know it.

    I do drive by Larwill on my way home from Valparaiso, and, in fact, if I remember rightly where the Longs live, I drive by there. I believe it is on the back roads outside Pierceton.

    I don’t need a trip to a family farm. I oppose CAFOs, and taking me to a “family farm” will not change my mind. CAFOs need to be regulated, and to date, Indiana counties and our state legislature have let the Daniels/Skillman team tap dance all over the state with their Possibilities Unbound Plan.

    The only thing Daniels wants to do is rape the state and use Indiana for an experiment in privatization.

  8. clint jenkins says:

    Would you say I grew up on a family farm or factory farm.
    Is traditional farming using horses? Is it using 10x rates of bt? Is it pasturizing your oun milk and shipping it in glass pints? Is it beating a horse to death? Im sure when tractors came out some on the left said it was an industry farm because the guy went from 12 acres to 60.

    You do need to go to a family farm. You have family farms, traditional farming and cafos confused.

  9. Clint:

    CAFOs are not farms. They are facilities where huge numbers of animals are enclosed 24-hours a day, injected with antibiotics because of the close quarters, and given feed laced with hormones to quickly increase their weights.

    Here is a link to the CDC, which discusses CAFO issues:

    http://www.cdc.gov/cafos/about.htm

    Here is one which I am sure you will discount because of the group that provides the info:

    http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/cafo-costs-report-0113.html

    As to a discussion about tradition – how is it that you are willing to change your definition of “traditional” farming yet refuse to see other viewpoints when it comes to “traditional” social, economic, and philosophical values?

  10. clint jenkins says:

    Traditional farming wont feed everyone.
    Did I grow up on a cafo? If so, was it a farm? You seemed to skip this.
    I guess I can change definitions of traditional because farming practices concerning animals are not in the constitution.
    Social issues, what do I need to change
    Economic issues, why is it my job to pay outragously higher taxes than others.
    Is it my job to pay for others insurance. Health insurance is not a right period. Food is more important than health insurance, why is there no mandate on food rights.
    It is rediculous to even argue my points with you, as you can see, others have tried socialism, it doesnt work. We have tried to make the housing market equal- howd that work out. You even said in the past housing is a right. What a crock.

    Where does this constitution you love so much enter the arena of arguement on govts responsibility.

  11. Clint:

    The Constitution that I love so much is a document that is capable of growth and inclusion. This country started out with only a select few in power wielding voting rights. Over the decades it has grown to include previously excluded groups.

    The fact that minorities and women were excluded for so many years is asinine. You may think it is just great that thousands of people were excluded from participating because of their race or gender, but I think it was a travesty.

    That travesty of injustice has now been remedied.

    Your statement:

    “I guess I can change definitions of traditional because farming practices concerning animals are not in the constitution.”

    Many of the social issues with which we deal were not in the Constitution. Voting was not included in the Constitution as a right, but over the decades, it has been provided as a right. How do you explain that?

    Providing protection for those with disabilities is not in the Constitution. The right to privacy is not in the Constitution.

    Here is the Ninth amendment:

    “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

    It was added to make sure that just because some rights weren’t included didn’t mean they didn’t exist.

  12. sarah smith says:

    Your right, I should have been clearer…I was talking about JLT in reference to the CAFO’s and you not knowing where she stands. But when I refered to the majority of libs supporting candidates that they know little or nothing about, or they make up their mind based on one issue, and when those candidates happen to have VERY strong terrorist ties-I was refering to Obama. I would have thought that was clear because I am sure you’re well informed about his close associations with such individuals. It truely scares me that people over look this and pass it off as rumor or just unimportant. I think we need to wake up and face facts.

  13. Ira Johnson says:

    Instead of using the term “traditional” with farming, use “sustainable”. Sustainable farming is farmers meeting the needs of today with respect for the needs of tomorrow. CAFOs or factory farms are not sustainable.That information is easy to find with a little research. Here are a couple of the 1000s of webpages that explain the devastation caused by many factory farms.

    http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/1043/cafos-uncovered-the-untold-costs-of-confined-animal-feeding-operations

    http://www.grist.org/feature/2007/10/10/counties/

    Read “For the Birds” on this website to find out what is recommended CAFOs do to birds: http://dairy.osu.edu/bdnews/v005iss03.htm

    Do a little research on sustainable farming and you will find that sustainable farmers use modern methods and equipment to produce enough safe food without destroying the world we live in.

    I might be wrong, but I think Jill Long Thompson is in support of sustainable farming.

  14. Sarah:

    Perhaps you should research Obama’s “close” associations with the individuals you are referencing.

    There was no close association – McCain knows it, Palin knows, and the voters know it. In fact, McPalin’s attempts to continue to smear Obama are falling flat and making McCain look like a desperate, old man who has lost his way.

  15. Mike says:

    I went onto http://www.hoosiersforjill.com/mediacenter/press/P90/
    and found this:
    ********************************************************************
    NEWS RELEASE

    For Immediate Release: April 22, 2008

    LONG THOMPSON STATEMENT ON EARTH DAY

    ARGOS, Ind. – The following is a statement from Democratic gubernatorial candidate Jill Long Thompson reflecting on today’s celebration of Earth Day.

    “Growing up on my family’s farm, my parents instilled in my brothers and me a healthy respect for the environment. We learned very early on that for the long term success of our farm, we had to protect and care for the land, water and air.

    Sadly, today we have a Governor that does not share those values. Time after time, Governor Daniels has chosen to ignore environmental considerations when making decisions about the future of the state.

    As we celebrate Earth Day, it’s important that Hoosier demand leadership that balances our economic and environmental needs – because we shouldn’t be forced to sacrifice one for the other.

    That’s why as Governor, I will encourage businesses to invest in “green” technology and jobs, promote renewable energy and hold companies that violate our environmental standards accountable.

    I believe that to build the type of state we all want Indiana to be, we must continue to work together to not only grow and attract good-paying jobs, but to protect and improve the environment and our quality of life.”

    ***************************************************************
    The statement about protecting and improving the environment and quality of life is the only thing that I could find where she might be against CAFOs. On the other hand, she may just be talking about power plants. I couldn’t find anything on her website about CAFOs. Which makes me wonder if she’s trying to side-step this issue.

  16. Mike:

    I think I will email in and see if I get a response. Those who grew up on family farms – as Jill did – couldn’t possibly believe that CAFOs are traditional or “sustainable” as Ira says.

  17. Mike:

    I did find the following at her website from a July appearance in Jefferson County:

    “Another issue of interest in Jefferson County is concentrated animal feeding operations, or CAFOs, the large livestock businesses.

    I have a concern about a high concentration of manure anywhere,” Long Thompson said. The existing laws should be enforced and if needed, strengthened, to protect the public and the environment.

    Decisions about CAFOs should be based “on science as well as quality of life,” she said.

  18. Hmm, I thought she was a proud Jenkins baby!

  19. clint jenkins says:

    Ira, I know sustainable farming, and cafos are sustainable. You citiots think you got this stuff figured out because you have read an article or go to a biased web page.
    I suppose cafos dont seem really comfortable for the animal and probably are not but they cant speak and they dont open the gate so I will assume they dont mind.

    Do any of you citiots know what happens when you let pigs birth in a natural setting?

    Ed. Note:

    Citiots is not a word found in the dictionary and does a disservice to all people who live in cities.

  20. clint jenkins says:

    Charlotte. Five interviews and 100s of pics and video. Probably 10000 people at the event.

  21. Ira Johnson says:

    Clint:
    I assume your cute term “citiots” means “from the city” and “idiots”. First of all I was raised on a farm, secondly I live on a farm, third I have a masters degree, and fourth I’ve done way more than read a few biased websites-more like thosands of pieces of information-reserch studies, etc…. As an educated person, I would never base my opinions and beliefs on a few websites. (I also do not name call.)

    Sustainable means capable of being sustained, designating, of, or characterized by a practice that sustains a given condition, as economic growth or a human population, without destroying or depleting natural resources, polluting the environment, etc….. sustainable agriculture

    Do the fish kills around the state, birds that are killed with poison around cafos, farm families who live near a cafo who can no longer enjoy their homes, high nitrate drinking water causing health problems, farm neighbors who suffer from hydrogen sulfide poisoning meet that definition? How about the 100’s of people who suffered or those who died from food poisoning as a result of liquid manure spread on spinach or lettuce fields? Have you researched any info on what is found in the liquid manure once it has fermented for 6 months or more? Research how that enters into the antibiotic resistance that we are developing in our country. Research how our water supply moves through the aquifer in different types of soils.

    Not exactly sustainable attributes.

  22. clint jenkins says:

    Ira, you are not fooling me. Do you realy think they spread liquid manure on spinach and lettuce? Sir, I dont believe for a second you live on a farm. Just because you have a fence and a few animals does not make your residence a farm.
    1 Name one case in Indiana of Hydrogen Sulfide poisioning
    2 Name one producer putting liquid manure on a crop of Spinach or Lettuce
    3 Was the cafo there before the homes that were ruined

    I dont care if you have a masters and phd. I live and work in ag and have more accalaids than Al Gore in environmental science. I would like to help you on your farm at no charge. Just tell me how many “acres” and number of “livestock” you “farm” and I will be glad to help out.

  23. Ira Johnson says:

    1. Long time farmer Allen Hutchison-lived there long before cafos were built next door.
    2. Happened in Califormia-we don’t grow large crops of lettuce and spinach.
    3. They were family farms and their homes that were there for generations before the cafos.

  24. Bill Jamison says:

    Clint:
    Rather than attack, why don’t you answer Ira’s questions about the fish kills, etc…. with how that makes a cafo “sustainable”.

  25. clint jenkins says:

    Fish kills should not be happening. There are standards ran by your and my government which should prevent this from happening but sence you and I know govt cant do anything right, stuff happens(farms have been shut down though). Water treatment plants also screw up from time to time, should we close down the citiots sewers? Ever hear of an Allen county boil alert?

    I realy dont see calling someone out as an “attack”. The truth hurts and helps us understand who we are dealing with.
    So, How many neighbors in America died/poisened of Hy Sulfide(from manure)?

    Here is a little info on why spinach or lettuce would be effected by manure. Modern practice using “non traditional” fertilizers have saved lives once again.

    http://www.cgfi.org/2006/09/20/spinach-e-coli-contamination-media-advisory/

    1. Organic farming practices are not safer and may, in fact, be less safe than non-organic farming practices.

    — A University of Minnesota study published in the Journal of Food Protection in 2004 concluded that organic produce was six times more likely to be contaminated with E. coli. Salmonella was found on organic lettuce and organic green peppers, but not on any conventional produce. According to the researchers, the “prevalence of E. coli on certified organic produce” was “almost threefold higher than that on conventional”, but because of the comparatively smaller conventional food sample size, this difference could not be considered “statistically significant”. Yet of the total of 15 farms that had E. coli-positive samples, 13 were organic and only two were conventional. (Mukherjee, A, et al. J of Food Prot 67(5):894-900, 2004)

    Ira, I bet the farmers with the cafos were there for generations also.
    So, Ira, how many acres do you farm? What livestock do you have? You wanted to brag about your degrees but wont state your actual knowledge level as to (current) experience with farming

    I think the term citiots does a disservce to idiots:)

    Also, Ira, I believe antibotic resistance is a result of over use in hospitals, handsoaps and a whole lot of other applications, including abuse and misuse. If you want to blame cafos, fine, but it does show a bit of ignorance on your part. I really dont need to do any research as in Dec I will be a Technical Service Provider, Certified Professional Agronomist, Certified Crop advisor, Certified professionnal soil scientist, Certified Professional Soil Classifier, Certified applicator, Hold degrees in Soil Science, Degree in Crop Science and actualy there is more but I think you may be getting the point by now. So, yes I do realize how water moves through soil.

    Did any of you care to answer what happens when a sow gives birth in a natural environment? Or am I the only one who has to step up to the plate.

  26. Ira says:

    Yes, 50+ yrs ago on the pigs, but no sustainable farmer I know lets them just give birth out in nature, and hasn’t for a long time.
    Sustainable farming is farmers meeting the needs of today with respect for the needs of tomorrow.

    It may be possible to have confined feeding operations without harmning the environment but it certainly isn’t happening that way yet. Lets do something about it before it goes past the point of no return.

    The question still remains-Will Jill Long Thompson be willing to step up to the plate to regulate this type of production? I believe she will, so you know how I will vote.

  27. clint jenkins says:

    Ira, thank you. Now, we already have regulation by the usda/nrcs to stop the unfriendly application of manure. We have a system of record keeping of application. And we have a system of Tech Reg to provide assistance to farmers to stay in the law.
    I have worked countless hours on programs such as EQIP. providing farmers with env. friendly ways to farm and even manage timberstands for wildlife.

    Here is what I know of cafos considering I grew up on a farm with cafos.
    I quickly learned why we put that building up when I went to feed the sows and the other hogs were laying on her litter and some were even eating the newborns. It is a harsh reality that pigs are not human. The mother will defend them to a point but most of the time over 80% of the litter would be lost without cafos. Over 90% of cafos are owned by family farms. You may think they are corporations because they say INC behind them. They are not. They are Incs. because our fabulous govts tax laws and sue happy lawyers. I know a farmer, in s ohio, who just lost his father. His father had no plan and now the govt wants 53% for the death tax. Needless to say, a corp would have saved this family from going under.

    My point. People dont understand ag.

  28. Clint:

    So why didn’t the farmer set up a corporation? He surely could have gone to an attorney and learned how to protect his interests. How are you blaming the government when the person should have taken the responsibility to protect his assets?

    By the way, which government? The State of Ohio or the federal government?

    When my mother died, my brother and I were exempted from taxes on all but $500. Indiana has laws that protect lineal descendants of the first degree. So was it Ohio or the federal government?

    It is really easy to throw out information knowing there isn’t any way to back it up. Do you by any chance have the cause number for the estate filings?

  29. clint jenkins says:

    http://www.legacy.com/Dispatch/Obituaries.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonID=116136648

    I cant believe you are challenging me on this. Since you have all of the connections why dont you look up the cause number.

    The farmer didnt set up the corp because he saw America the way he grew up. You know when the govt didnt steal everything.
    You only had to pay 500 dollars because in passing there was not 4 or 5 million at stake.

  30. Clint:

    I can’t believe that you are now defending someone who did not do estate planning. Since you have been posting on my blog, one of your themes has been the individual taking responsibility for his or her own situation. I am sorry for the loss of the family, but you are taking diametrically opposed stances.

    Once again – because you hate government so much – you turn on the government because the farmer did not have the sense to protect his interests. You said yourself he could have set up a corporation and done so.

    And, you are always trashing me for seeing America as I grew, yet now you defend the farmer for basing his actions on how he saw America as he grew up? Wasn’t my discussion of CAFOs based on traditional farming as opposed to industrial farming? In that situation you pooh-poohed my support of traditional farming – the way I grew up – and you supported the “new age” in farming.

    My $500 was based on the state laws – that’s why I mentioned the Indiana law. That is also why I asked if the money the estate had to pay was because of a state inheritance law or the federal inheritance law.

    Make up your mind which way you are going to go. To be honest, I think you would disagree with me no matter what I said.

  31. clint jenkins says:

    To test this premise, I divide the sample according to low, medium, and high well
    usage and interact number of animal units with indicators for these well usage levels.21 Table
    4 shows that high well- water usage counties are less likely to have an effect from livestock on
    infant mortality than low well-water usage counties. This suggests that the elevated infant
    mortality rate associated with livestock farming does not appear to be related to groundwater
    pollution.

    Certain causes of death are extremely unlikely (as evidenced by the means), and thus it
    is difficult to discern statistical significance of livestock’s effects on these

    Consumption of fecal coliform,linked to livestock farms, gives rise to bacterial and intestinal infections like gastroenteritis. I find no significant relationship between gastritis or intestinal infections and number of animal units, although the rates of these causes of death are low enough to inhibit identification of effects.

    The fifth row shows the relationship between diseases of the blood and blood forming organs and livestock, which is the cause of death associated with methemoglobinemia (associated with nitrate-contaminated water). While positive, the relationship is not significant,

    The above are all quotes from her study. She does not include alchohol, smoking or drug use in screening for IMR. Very bogus study in my opinion. But she worked hard on this study and had to put something down after her efforts. I could make it look like the pigs were stabbing children if I had to with the power of statistics. The author is a huge lib from berkley and I believe this influences her statistics and drive to find something that does not exist.

  32. clint jenkins says:

    Charlotte, you are damned if you do or dont incorporate. The bottom line, the govt shouldnt need to steal money in those quantities.

    Situation 1. Farmer incorporates. Corportation is taxed at huge rates because it shows a profit over 250,000 per year(we know they are evil and rich) Then the corportation pays its employees 3 fulltime 2 part time. These employees are then taxed by the govt. These taxes are due every year from the corportation and the employees. Dont forget all of the sales tax the corporation pays. Dont forget the corportation also has to pay 14% for Social Security.

    Situation 2 Farmer is not up on laws for gov stealing. He doesnt incorporate. Each employee pays tax on income. When owner passes, they saved money over the years from no double taxation. However, now it is time to get out the big wallet and pay 53% of about 4-5 million dollars on a lifetime of hard work. He already paid tax when they bought this stuff.

    You are right the govt doesnt take enough of our money!!!!!!!!!And then when they do they make great decisions for how to spend it, they know better than me!!!!!!

    The fact that you would argue with me on how we are taxed too much shows your socialist ways. I have never trashed you reminiscing about the past.

    What a great system, a family member dies, and the govt is there to help.

    I wouldnt dissagree with you on everything, you dissagree with me on everything. For you not to say it is unjust to tax a family 53%, or incorportate and pay double tax for the life of the Corp is just socialistic.

    You libs ought to be happy today, Exxon tanked out in the stock market along with all of the other evil corps. Way to go. WHOOO HOOO, take that fat cats.. Wait, on second thought, I own those companies, nevermind the WHOOO HOOO.

  33. Clint:

    Your statement:

    “Situation 2 Farmer is not up on laws for gov stealing. He doesnt incorporate.”

    Excuse me – you are saying a farmer who has millions of dollars worth of assets doesn’t have legal counsel to protect those assets? Sorry, then something is wrong. Ask yourself this – if you had millions in assets wouldn’t you seek legal advice to best protect those assets?

    I guess I am still having a hard time figuring out why someone would have millions of dollars and not take steps to protect it. You were the one who said all he had to do was incorporate.

    By the way, I did find that the farmer you referenced set up a trust, which I assume contains some of the assets you were describing.

    Here is the IRS site on taxes on trusts:

    http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=112782,00.html#estate_tax_rate_2007

    Mr. Miller set the trust up just this past summer about a month before he passed away. Mr. Miller conveyed 14 parcels of land into the revocable trust. I believe you also said he had an equipment business, but I didn’t find anything on that.

  34. clint jenkins says:

    Millions may sound like alot to you and Obama here are the facts. And he doesnt have millions of dollars, he had millions in property, which the govt sees as $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

    1 Combine 300,000
    2 Heads for combine 60,000
    3 Tractor 1 250,000
    4 Tractor 2 200,000
    5 Tractor 3 150,000
    6 2 semis 100,000
    7 2 semi trailers 60,000
    8 1 planter 150,000
    9 500 acres of land 1500000
    10 Homestead 250,000
    11 seeder 50,000
    12 tillage equipment 100,000
    13 tools 150,000
    This is rough and an under estimate.

    So here is the deal, you still defend the govt taking half of this. Did he have insurance, yes. If he incorporated, the burden of double taxation takes place.

    You are unbelievable. I would say even people on this blog who hate what I stand for would still say these guys and millions of business owners like them are getting the shaft. But not you! And how much do you think his family should have to pay the govt for him dying? Can you put your liberal “fairness” to his death tax. How much would you tax them and ruin the American dream? This is why corporations move to other countries. TAXES. and labor.

  35. clint jenkins says:

    One other thing, why should we have to as you put it “protect” our assets from our govt taking them?

  36. Clint:

    The land that you list as worth $1,500,000 is in the trust. That means it is exempt up to a certain amount. Did you visit the IRS website? The amount in the trust that is exempt is up to $2,000,000 in 2008. That means that his land is exempt from the death tax. The only thing that would be taxed in the future is the income produced – but that is the case for all of us.

    As to the other items, they total $1,570,000. The IRS website indicates the following:
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly traded securities, small amounts of other easily valued assets, and no special deductions or elections, or jointly held property) with a total value under $1,000,000 do not require the filing of an estate tax return. The amount was $1,500,000 in 2004 and 2005. For 2006 through 2008, the amount is raised to $2,000,000.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Here is another bit:

    ESTATE TAX IMPACTS ON FAMILY FARMS

    Myth: Many family farmers and small business owners are forced to pay the estate tax.

    Reality: Most family farms and small business owners do not meet estate tax eligibility thresholds.

    The USDA’s Economic Research Service reported that the average farm household net worth
    ranged from $576,400 for small farms to $1.5 million for very large family farms. The estate
    tax already exempts $2 million of all estates, and the exemption level rises to $3.5 million by
    2009 (double for couples). The New York Times has reported that the American Farm Bureau
    could not cite a single case of a family farm lost due to the estate tax.

    A recent Federal Reserve Survey of Small Business Finances indicates that the average net
    worth of small businesses is $702,566. Only 4 percent of small businesses have a net worth
    of more than $3.5 million, the amount exempted from taxation by 2009, thereby exempting 96
    percent of all small businesses.

    Since I am not familiar with tax law, my research leads me to posit the following:

    The land, valued at $1,500,000 is in the trust (14 parcels were transferred in July 2008 although Fairfield County, OH records show a number of other entries). Trusts exempt up to $2,000,000 from estate taxation. Thus, his land will not be taxed – only the income, which as I previously noted is something we all pay taxes on.

    The rest of the equipment is owned by Mr. Miller, probably by himself. Estate rules already exempt $2,000,000, thus all the value of the equipment would be free of the federal death tax.

    You also listed a Homestead which probably would not be subject to estate tax. Now as to Ohio tax law, here is what I found:

    If the taxable estate is: The tax shall be:

    Not over $40,000 2% of the taxable estate
    Over $40,000 but not over $100,000 $800 plus 3% of the excess over $40,000
    Over $100,000 but not over $200,000 $2,600 plus 4% of the excess over $100,000
    Over $200,000 but not over $300,000 $6,600 plus 5% of the excess over $200,000
    Over $300,000 but not over $500,000 $11,600 plus 6% of the excess over $300,000
    Over $500,000 $23,600 plus 7% of the excess over $500,000

    Now, when all this is put together, my estimate of the estate taxes, both federal and state is $203,500 which is roughly 7% of the total estate – not the over 50% that you incorrectly provided.

    The “death tax” is supposedly being repealed altogether in 2010.

    Your following statements denigrating me show that you have not done your research and that you are clinging to an erroneous and uninformed belief.

    “You are unbelievable. I would say even people on this blog who hate what I stand for would still say these guys and millions of business owners like them are getting the shaft. But not you! And how much do you think his family should have to pay the govt for him dying? Can you put your liberal “fairness” to his death tax.”

    Please do some research on the death tax and its repeal as well as calculations based on the information I have provided. You have been mislead by someone who is not well informed.

  37. clint jenkins says:

    I was guessing at the land value, as an example, does it state that it is the lands worth in all of you investigation into the trust.

    All of that machinery will be moved into the sons names, they will pay tax on that right?
    lets say they have 1400 acres of corn. 180 bushel to the acre. 8 dollars per bushel
    2,016,000. They will have to pay taxes on this as it is in his name. Putting him out of the saftey area.
    1000 acres of beans, 15 dollars a bushel yeild 45 bushel=675,000

    It starts adding up and they have to pay the value of this unharvested crop. I will actual research this more as you are calling me and the farmer a liar. Maybe he is misguided.

  38. Clint:

    Let’s clear one thing up – I did not call you or the farmer a liar. Here is what I said:

    “You have been mislead by someone who is not well informed.” Does that sound like I called you or the farmer a liar?

    Please reread the above post, visit the IRS website for tax rates, etc.

    Again, please see the following above:

    “The New York Times has reported that the American Farm Bureau could not cite a single case of a family farm lost due to the estate tax.”

    I found a wealth of information for you, and you are the one calling me a liar. Why is it so hard to reassess the situation and admit that, perhaps, you were wrong in your understanding of the estate tax rules? The easy way out is to always blame the government.

    I am by no means an expert in this are, but I did some research and found the information that appears to apply in this situation.

    The land values are not set out in the trust document. Here is the link that will take you to the document. It is a public record, and I located it online by searching Fairfield County, Ohio.

    http://www.landaccess.com/sites/oh/fairfield/shared/tract/tract.php?year=2008&docnumber=00013448

    Here is the link to review the parcels of land with both the appraisal values and the assessed values:

    http://realestate.co.fairfield.oh.us/Results.aspx?SearchType=Owner&Criteria1=Ralph&Criteria2=Miller

  39. clint jenkins says:

    OK, so the site says he has over 700 acres x $3500 acre 2,450,000
    Machinery 1,500,000
    Current crop value 2,500,000

    Can you see where the tax problem may come in? roughly 6.5 million in assets. Now what?

  40. I am just guessing here, but since the agricultural land is now held in the trust, the crop value will be considered as income to the trust and will be taxed as income. The crops won’t be included as estate property to be taxed, so that amount can be removed from the calculation.

    Is your $3500 a solid estimate, or has the land already been valued at that amount? Up to $2,000,000 is excluded when held in a trust, so depending on the evaluation, the amount may fall under or above the $2,000,000 exempted.

    Another factor is the IRS deduction for a decedent who owned any interest in a qualifying family owned farm. The amount can range up to $1,100,000 and may be available under IRC §2057.

    Here is a FactCheck article which debunks the myth of taxing the farmer out of business:

    http://www.factcheck.org/article328.html

  41. clint jenkins says:

    No. from the way they told me the govt came out and est yeild to get ready for the tax. 3500 for ag land is probably low. I have heard of people running it up to 4000 to 4500.
    You can fact check all you want. Here is the fact. this family is screwed on taxes. Another thing I have thought of is there is no resource to go and complain about a tax putting these people out of business. After a death, the land is sold, equipment is sold, or a living rep goes into huge debt to claim what is already theirs.. You can claim all the fact check you want. Why dont you pick up an auction mag or get involved in ag and you will see the death tax taking place. Is there a box to chech on the death tax to claim that this is what did the farm in?

  42. Clint:

    You are mixing two items – land in the trust and yield per acre.

    Did you even bother to go to the websites I listed? Why is it the Farm Bureau cannot even come up with one farmer who was put out of business because of the tax?

  43. clint jenkins says:

    The trust goes over 2 mill
    the crops and machinery go over 2 mil
    Do you think they will be taxed?

    Why cant they find a farmer who went out of business. I dont think there is a hotline to call in and complain about the taxes. The death tax says, get out or go borrow a lot of money to stay in.
    Are you not a lawyer, look it up with the numbers and act like you are representing them. Get back with me with the “low taxes” they have to pay.
    Many farmers go out of business everyday, is it because they had to rebuy equipment and land? Like I said before. When a farm is lost, there is no box to chech to say the govt taxes did this.

  44. Clint:

    If we can find homeowners who lose their homes, then why on earth wouldn’t you be able to find farmers who go out of business?

    I would assume farmers borrow just like mortgagors, therefore, there would be evidence in foreclosures.

    Perhaps they go out of business because they mismanage, just like other businesses.

    Next year the death tax will be done – then what or who will people have to blame?

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